Helis & DS balancing

Greetings.
I'm making this thread to discuss about helis, DS and infs/militias (duh).

First, infantries have got a base 6 defense, but I'll consider it as 7 because infantries are always in cities. I'll start with some facts.

1- If you take normal infantries and helis, then you get 5v6. Helis are not worth it at all, since they cost 200 and infantries 70. Now, if you take a gen and stack it with the infantries, it will be even 6v6.

2- If you go DS, then you'll get +2 attack. 5/6v8. Now, that seems to have more sense, as infantries cost 70 and helis 130. Fair? I think so, if they buff helis' attack a little, they would be too powerful when it's DS vs non-tweaked infs.

3- If you go DS against PD, then you'll get 7/8v8.

4- Using helicopters against PD infantries is 100% useless and a waste. It's 7/8 vs 6. Take a look at costs, too. 60 and 200.

Okay, now what I'm suggesting is, tweak helicopters to make them stronger with a normal strategy. Also change DS buffs, so they're not stronger than how they work now.
Make DS have +1 attack, and change helis' attack to 7.
Make DS have -30/20 cost, and change helis' cost to 170/160.

The suggestion I made is just to balance helis and make them a little stronger with a normal strategy. I would not like to discuss about a PD nerf to -3 defence against helis (instead of 2) already, but we'll get into that.


Im suggesting these buffs and also, tweakings to DS to make it back to normal, as they are now. 8 attack 130 cost. I am not suggesting a DS buff.

No support

DS must be like a dificult start not so op

Wr1tt3n by JUGERS2, 06.02.2014 at 15:03

No support

DS must be like a dificult start not so op

I feel like you didn't even read the thread. PLEASE, but PLEEASE, do not send your opinion without considering and reading the whole post first. Many people will come and say "oh wait, ds buff? nty".
I did NOT suggest a DS buff in here.

Yeah, your right, helis are to expensive for what they are, but they are skirmish things and fast, but i agree

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 06.02.2014 at 15:06

Wr1tt3n by JUGERS2, 06.02.2014 at 15:03

No support

DS must be like a dificult start not so op

I feel like you didn't even read the thread. PLEASE, but PLEEASE, do not send your opinion without considering and reading the whole post first. Many people will come and say "oh wait, ds buff? nty".
I did NOT suggest a DS buff in here.

then i dont understand
What to you want to buff helicopters or to just do them mor echeap

Wr1tt3n by JUGERS2, 06.02.2014 at 15:11

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 06.02.2014 at 15:06

Wr1tt3n by JUGERS2, 06.02.2014 at 15:03

No support

DS must be like a dificult start not so op

I feel like you didn't even read the thread. PLEASE, but PLEEASE, do not send your opinion without considering and reading the whole post first. Many people will come and say "oh wait, ds buff? nty".
I did NOT suggest a DS buff in here.

then i dont understand
What to you want to buff helicopters or to just do them mor echeap

Mate, if you don't understand I wouldn't like to make 1-3 extra posts to explain it to YOU. You barely even consider my opinions and do healthy criticism. Sorry.

Wr1tt3n by Chess, 06.02.2014 at 15:14

The Nerf of DS infantry should be removed.
It has been nerfed without the agreement of the community.

Exactly, I forgot to mention this. I made this thread for the purpose of buffing the helicopter itself

DS is unique in the sense that it offers you almost a land submarine, in regards to the defending with DS, you shouldnt be defending, instead grabbing more spawn and recapping with your heli/marine combo stacks, it is a hard strategy but there are some people who do it well so I see no need for inf in this strat to be de-nerfed.

The cost change is interesting, I prefer that to increasing their attack. Would go for one or the other as not to over buff, you do still want DS to be the Heli strategy.

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 06.02.2014 at 15:02

Okay, now what I'm suggesting is, tweak helicopters to make them stronger with a normal strategy. Also change DS buffs, so they're not stronger than how they work now.
Make DS have +1 attack, and change helis' attack to 7.
Make DS have -30/20 cost, and change helis' cost to 170/160.

i think this would be an overpowered boost, in relation to ds. i support the standar helis being boosted as youve suggested. but heres why. its not as simple as comparing the mathematical tradeoff.

firstly defensive units should be cheaper than their offensive counterparts. although i do agree, the cost difference and effectiveness between a pd infantry and a ds heli is a little steep. but heres my concern if you were to boost ds as youre suggesting. its situational

ever played a 10k eu as imperialist or pd and found yourself fighting a ds rush by a ds player using a cheap country(cough thunderballs cough)? if you can survive to the first rein week while retaining a significant amount of your territory or even some of his youre fine, but therein lies the challenge lol.

if you power ds up as youre suggesting, youre creating a very powerful ds rush. i would even daresay unstoppable lol. i would support perhaps a -10 cost boost to ds helis at most. but i feel any further boosts to the strat would need to come from a different angle, perhaps with the infantry.

what exactly was the unsupported nerf to ds infantry? was it to attack or defense, or even both?

DS is weak since it need much funds.

Wr1tt3n by Permamuted, 06.02.2014 at 22:13

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 06.02.2014 at 15:02

Okay, now what I'm suggesting is, tweak helicopters to make them stronger with a normal strategy. Also change DS buffs, so they're not stronger than how they work now.
Make DS have +1 attack, and change helis' attack to 7.
Make DS have -30/20 cost, and change helis' cost to 170/160.

i think this would be an overpowered boost, in relation to ds. i support the standar helis being boosted as youve suggested. but heres why. its not as simple as comparing the mathematical tradeoff.

firstly defensive units should be cheaper than their offensive counterparts. although i do agree, the cost difference and effectiveness between a pd infantry and a ds heli is a little steep. but heres my concern if you were to boost ds as youre suggesting. its situational

ever played a 10k eu as imperialist or pd and found yourself fighting a ds rush by a ds player using a cheap country(cough thunderballs cough)? if you can survive to the first rein week while retaining a significant amount of your territory or even some of his youre fine, but therein lies the challenge lol.

if you power ds up as youre suggesting, youre creating a very powerful ds rush. i would even daresay unstoppable lol. i would support perhaps a -10 cost boost to ds helis at most. but i feel any further boosts to the strat would need to come from a different angle, perhaps with the infantry.

what exactly was the unsupported nerf to ds infantry? was it to attack or defense, or even both?

I did not suggest any change to DS, just to the helis, and then nerf DS buffs to make them normal like they are now.

Wr1tt3n by THE_Militia, 07.02.2014 at 09:06

DS is weak since it need much funds.

I think its fine, they are like SM bombers more or less. Though they should remove kebab the -1 attack to DS infs.

Wr1tt3n by b0nker2, 06.02.2014 at 20:44

DS is unique in the sense that it offers you almost a land submarine, in regards to the defending with DS, you shouldnt be defending, instead grabbing more spawn and recapping with your heli/marine combo stacks, it is a hard strategy but there are some people who do it well so I see no need for inf in this strat to be de-nerfed.

The cost change is interesting, I prefer that to increasing their attack. Would go for one or the other as not to over buff, you do still want DS to be the Heli strategy.

By infs, I mean inf attack not their defence which is already shit. DS is like a weaker SM, atm. SM has more range, same cost, and almost same damage.
Normal helis attack are REALLY weak. Even with these buffs they would still be useless in regular games but atleast it would be better than how they are now.

Support heli cost to be like -20. Also for DS why not give militia a +1 defense since people are complaining about the inf -1 defense.

I don't like the idea of a +1 defense to militia with this strategy. My suggestion would be to remove the -1 defense nerf that infantry have with DS and instead give infantry critical -2 like they have done with SM infantry.

Wr1tt3n by Permamuted, 07.02.2014 at 10:31

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 07.02.2014 at 10:04

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 06.02.2014 at 15:02

Okay, now what I'm suggesting is, tweak helicopters to make them stronger with a normal strategy. Also change DS buffs, so they're not stronger than how they work now.
Make DS have +1 attack, and change helis' attack to 7.
Make DS have -30/20 cost, and change helis' cost to 170/160.

I did not suggest any change to DS, just to the helis, and then nerf DS buffs to make them normal like they are now.

lol you need to reword your op, can you see why people are getting confused. =/

Done.

Wr1tt3n by Spart, 07.02.2014 at 11:18

I don't like the idea of a +1 defense to militia with this strategy. My suggestion would be to remove the -1 defense nerf that infantry have with DS and instead give infantry critical -2 like they have done with SM infantry.

I agree with not implementing the militia thing. This wouldn't make a big difference, max def you could get with them would be 6, and 4 CRIT.

I need more feedback about the helis' buff, though. I would like if more people discuss about it first, then we go and think on a DS buff. *I can't decide what's better, attack nerf removal or defense nerf removal*

I think the worthest change on the helis is allow them to carry marines with any strategy

I agree that regular helis should be boosted slightly.

I don't see the need to nerf/boos DS. For me Desert Storm has always been, will be the "Hipster" type strategy and it has worked like that too from what I've seen. If used right, it can be really effective. Just use heli's only to rip through infantries only.

I might be wrong though, if so please tell me.

Wait what is these attack and defence values?

Wr1tt3n by Trooper21, 08.02.2014 at 03:44

I don't see the need to nerf/boos DS. For me Desert Storm has always been, will be the "Hipster" type strategy and it has worked like that too from what I've seen. If used right, it can be really effective. Just use heli's only to rip through infantries only.

I might be wrong though, if so please tell me.

"NOTE:

Im suggesting these buffs and also, tweakings to DS to make it back to normal, as they are now. 8 attack 130 cost. I am not suggesting a DS buff."



No DS buffs.

Wr1tt3n by 4Chan, 08.02.2014 at 06:17

Wait what is these attack and defence values?

Ban him ^

Support changes to normal helis as they are useless without DS atm.

Wr1tt3n by Permamuted, 06.02.2014 at 22:13

perhaps a -10 cost boost to ds helis

Wr1tt3n by Spart, 07.02.2014 at 11:18

remove the -1 defense nerf that infantry have with DS and instead give infantry critical -2 like they have done with SM infantry.

Support these for DS strat improvements.

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 08.02.2014 at 08:22

"NOTE:

Im suggesting these buffs and also, tweakings to DS to make it back to normal, as they are now. 8 attack 130 cost. I am not suggesting a DS buff."

Right.

Shouldn't this be in the Ideas and Suggestions forum, then?

Wr1tt3n by Trooper21, 08.02.2014 at 11:27

Wr1tt3n by Guest, 08.02.2014 at 08:22

"NOTE:

Im suggesting these buffs and also, tweakings to DS to make it back to normal, as they are now. 8 attack 130 cost. I am not suggesting a DS buff."

Right.

Shouldn't this be in the Ideas and Suggestions forum, then?

Yes, but I saw Strat tweaks etc in this section, Ideas and Suggestion is just not too "serious".

Im going to implement some of these requests on my maps and see how they work.

Bump.