February Revolution

On this day exactly 100 years ago, February Revolution started. Russian Empire turned into Russian Republic. The Emperor abdicated and there were elections for the parliament. People called it Democratic Revolution, and Bolsheviks called it Bourgeois Revolution.

But Bolsheviks lost the elections, and formed their own government in Saint Petersburg (Petrograd Soviet), denouncing the Government of Russian Republic.





In timespan of 8 years:

WW1 Eastern Front > February Revolution > October Revolution > Russian Civil War

5 million dead humans
10 million horses
20 million cows


And then 20 years after that comes WW2

26 million dead humans
70,000 destroyed cities, towns and villages
6 million homes
100,000 farms
30,000 factories
80,000 schools
40,000 libraries
6,000 hospitals
thousands of km railroad tracks


20th century meant to be Age of Technology, Modern Era, Era of Great Discoveries, but in those short 100 years Russia suffered like no nation in history, and despite that managed to become a superpower, militarily strongest nation on Earth. But at the cost of economy and living standard.

Hopefully, 21st century will be more peaceful and prosperous for Russia, and let her release full innovative potential in fields like technology, science, engineering and space exploration.

Nice horses and cows fatalities lol.

Such a shame that Russia would be abused for so long by the Bolsheviks.

Wr1tt3n by Acquiesce, 23.02.2017 at 12:37

Nice horses and cows fatalities lol.

Cows give meat, milk, fertilizer and is able to produce more cows (more profit and food)

Horses can plow cropfields instead tractors, doesn't pollute, its fun to ride them, in some cultures is symbol of prestige and there is still no other way to climb light artillery to steep hill other than using horses.

Those casualties were irretrievable.

Wr1tt3n by Skanderbeg, 23.02.2017 at 12:27

On this day exactly 100 years ago, February Revolution started. Russian Empire turned into Russian Republic. The Emperor abdicated and there were elections for the parliament. People called it Democratic Revolution, and Bolsheviks called it Bourgeois Revolution.

But Bolsheviks lost the elections, and formed their own government in Saint Petersburg (Petrograd Soviet), denouncing the Government of Russian Republic.





In timespan of 8 years:

WW1 Eastern Front > February Revolution > October Revolution > Russian Civil War

5 million dead humans
10 million horses
20 million cows


And then 20 years after that comes WW2

26 million dead humans
70,000 destroyed cities, towns and villages
6 million homes
100,000 farms
30,000 factories
80,000 schools
40,000 libraries
6,000 hospitals
thousands of km railroad tracks


20th century meant to be Age of Technology, Modern Era, Era of Great Discoveries, but in those short 100 years Russia suffered like no nation in history, and despite that managed to become a superpower, militarily strongest nation on Earth. But at the cost of economy and living standard.

Hopefully, 21st century will be more peaceful and prosperous for Russia, and let her release full innovative potential in fields like technology, science, engineering and space exploration.

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 23.02.2017 at 14:51

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

Aryan master-race

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 23.02.2017 at 14:51

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

Iron and coal, very vital resources at the time.

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 23.02.2017 at 14:51

Wr1tt3n by Skanderbeg, 23.02.2017 at 12:27

On this day exactly 100 years ago, February Revolution started. Russian Empire turned into Russian Republic. The Emperor abdicated and there were elections for the parliament. People called it Democratic Revolution, and Bolsheviks called it Bourgeois Revolution.

But Bolsheviks lost the elections, and formed their own government in Saint Petersburg (Petrograd Soviet), denouncing the Government of Russian Republic.





In timespan of 8 years:

WW1 Eastern Front > February Revolution > October Revolution > Russian Civil War

5 million dead humans
10 million horses
20 million cows


And then 20 years after that comes WW2

26 million dead humans
70,000 destroyed cities, towns and villages
6 million homes
100,000 farms
30,000 factories
80,000 schools
40,000 libraries
6,000 hospitals
thousands of km railroad tracks


20th century meant to be Age of Technology, Modern Era, Era of Great Discoveries, but in those short 100 years Russia suffered like no nation in history, and despite that managed to become a superpower, militarily strongest nation on Earth. But at the cost of economy and living standard.

Hopefully, 21st century will be more peaceful and prosperous for Russia, and let her release full innovative potential in fields like technology, science, engineering and space exploration.

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

In one word USA.

In more words, currency reform, marshal plan, european economic aid to Germany.

Thats right, in return to Germanie's generosity destroying our economies, infrastructure and killing our youth, the whole of Europe gathered up to get money to help Germany. You can see how Germany repaid the favour by "helping" the Greeks now. (sarcasm)

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 23.02.2017 at 14:51

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

There are 3 options here: to ignore you, to answer you using few bad words and to answer you normally. I usually use either normal replies or simply ignore on provocative and stupid questions, and never use bad words, but i will reply, politely since you said 'please'.

Your question is 'Why Germany have higher life standard than Russia'
My answer: read first post

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 16:38

In one word USA.

In more words, currency reform, marshal plan, european economic aid to Germany.

Thats right, in return to Germanie's generosity destroying our economies, infrastructure and killing our youth, the whole of Europe gathered up to get money to help Germany. You can see how Germany repaid the favour by "helping" the Greeks now. (sarcasm)

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

I think he's trolling, impossible to read first post and still ask question like that.

Qu0t3:

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 16:38

[snip

In one word USA.

In more words, currency reform, marshal plan, european economic aid to Germany.

Thats right, in return to Germanie's generosity destroying our economies, infrastructure and killing our youth, the whole of Europe gathered up to get money to help Germany. You can see how Germany repaid the favour by "helping" the Greeks now. (sarcasm)

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

Two things:

1. In regards to "blacklisting" Russia/Eastern Europe from Marshal Plan- if memory serves me correctly, this aid was offered to the Soviet Union as well as to other nations in the soviet sphere of influence but was denied by Stalin and the Commies (would not serve ideology to accept capitalist money).

2. In regards to Germany "repaying the favor by 'helping' the Greeks now" I find it a little hard to put the blame squarely on Germany. After all, Greece provided generous pension to workers, it's retirement age is not as high as it i in other countries, and it's people (like much of Southern Europe) evade their taxes fairly well. Now certainly Germany is not immune to the problems facing Greece and the Euro zone, after all credit was given to Greece once it entered the EU with little oversight. It's like how most people who win the lottery spend all they money instead of saving/investign it, Greece entered a similar folly.

Keeping this in mind, how would you as PM of Germany sell this to Germany? How hard would it be to say "you all have paid your fair share in taxes, you all have cut back your hours of working in order to stay employed, but FYI we're gonna give Greece, a nation that has failed to implement sufficient reforms an failed to pay creditors back before, more money so that their citizens who pay less taxes than you can get a break?"

Certainly I would agree that austerity does not always work. It did well in the UK but seems to be stunting growth in Greece. But Khal I find it hard to believe that Germany is obligated to help Greece (even if I would concede that it should)


PS: Hope to see you in WWII this Saturday

Wr1tt3n by Skanderbeg, 23.02.2017 at 12:27

20th century meant to be Age of Technology, Modern Era, Era of Great Discoveries, but in those short 100 years Russia suffered like no nation in history, and despite that managed to become a superpower, militarily strongest nation on Earth. But at the cost of economy and living standard.

Hopefully, 21st century will be more peaceful and prosperous for Russia, and let her release full innovative potential in fields like technology, science, engineering and space exploration.

Side note: Russian revolution second favorite revolution (after French revolution)

Main note:

First question is, was it worth it? You mention Russia being a superpower, and certainly during the Cold War it was, but currently Russia is more of a regional power. Personally, it appears to be more of a dying empire. Economy is not doing well, population is declining, and there appears to be little accountability of Putin. While I would say the United States has the strongest military in the world (and while I concede an invasion of Russia would not end well, nor vice versa), I'm not sure if investing in the military at the expense of the economy and living standards is good in the long term.

For instance, nordic countries have strong economies but weak militaries (ie. they dot invest much in it much to the dismay of Trump and his cabinet).

Germany has strong economy and strong military (I would reckon they could hold their own against Russia in a war).

Russia has a strong military (evident in successful operations in Crimea and Syria along with learning new ways of conducting warfare in Chechnya and Georgia, but it's economy and living standards are lagging (as noted in first post).

So going back to my original question, is it worth having a strong military and flexing ones muscle at the expense of your country? With shrinking economy, standards of living deteriorate/ lag behind others. It is hardly a beacon for large quantities of people to make a life in Russia or open new businesses, etc. It appears to me modern Russia is experiencing similarities with the former Soviet Union, ie. little transparency so corruption seems to be endemic, little oversight of government meaning they can mess up (specifically Putin) and there does't seem to be accountability. And without that, I don't see how there can be a respected rule of law, an effective opposition, or new ways to innovate to increase Russias standard of living

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 16:38

In one word USA.

In more words, currency reform, marshal plan, european economic aid to Germany.

Thats right, in return to Germanie's generosity destroying our economies, infrastructure and killing our youth, the whole of Europe gathered up to get money to help Germany. You can see how Germany repaid the favour by "helping" the Greeks now. (sarcasm)

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

The US had little to do with our recovery. Germany was already a developed market with a highly skilled workforce and a population thirsty to consume. That's all you need for economic recovery when the entire country is pretty much flattened and hence also favours enormous government spending. With or without the US it would have happened and the Marshall Plan is more of a meme/Cold War propaganda when you consider that at the same time Germany was paying the US more in occupation maintenance annually than it was loaned during the entire MP programme.
What European economic aid are you talking about though? The war debt cut? Yes, that was very solid help and it puts us to shame that our representatives are forgetting about it while ruling out a debt cut for Greece.

I realise though that you necessarily need to take away from Germany since you are salty over the current political situation. Just a hint: how strong of a grip Germany has over EU policy could be very well seen during the Refugee Crisis. Whatever proposal our government made to introduce quotas was quickly shut down by the other member states. Greece being left alone with it's problems is down to all of the EU member states, which might help you understand that it's not single nations that keep Greece down but financial interests that in our current economic climate count for more than millions of people's lives.
That said, how a people can take responsibility of their own circumstances and affect change can be seen in Portugal right now. They are repaying their loans ahead of time and are on a road to recovery. Feel free to educate me on why both countries handle their financial crisis so differently, as I'm currently not aware and genuinely interested.

Qu0t3:

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 16:57

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 16:38

[snip

In one word USA.

In more words, currency reform, marshal plan, european economic aid to Germany.

Thats right, in return to Germanie's generosity destroying our economies, infrastructure and killing our youth, the whole of Europe gathered up to get money to help Germany. You can see how Germany repaid the favour by "helping" the Greeks now. (sarcasm)

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

Two things:

1. In regards to "blacklisting" Russia/Eastern Europe from Marshal Plan- if memory serves me correctly, this aid was offered to the Soviet Union as well as to other nations in the soviet sphere of influence but was denied by Stalin and the Commies (would not serve ideology to accept capitalist money).

2. In regards to Germany "repaying the favor by 'helping' the Greeks now" I find it a little hard to put the blame squarely on Germany. After all, Greece provided generous pension to workers, it's retirement age is not as high as it i in other countries, and it's people (like much of Southern Europe) evade their taxes fairly well. Now certainly Germany is not immune to the problems facing Greece and the Euro zone, after all credit was given to Greece once it entered the EU with little oversight. It's like how most people who win the lottery spend all they money instead of saving/investign it, Greece entered a similar folly.

Keeping this in mind, how would you as PM of Germany sell this to Germany? How hard would it be to say "you all have paid your fair share in taxes, you all have cut back your hours of working in order to stay employed, but FYI we're gonna give Greece, a nation that has failed to implement sufficient reforms an failed to pay creditors back before, more money so that their citizens who pay less taxes than you can get a break?"

Certainly I would agree that austerity does not always work. It did well in the UK but seems to be stunting growth in Greece. But Khal I find it hard to believe that Germany is obligated to help Greece (even if I would concede that it should)


PS: Hope to see you in WWII this Saturday

1. Dont know, dont care- irrelevant? I dont get what point you are trying to make. Paint Russia as the bad guy maybe, well you better dont.


2. Well i didnt see you reply after i wrote a 1000 word post last year regarding the same issue. I am not gonna repeat myself. You are comparing a situation where Germany literally destroyed half of Europe and got HELP in return. Not BAILOUTS, NO IMF, NO PRIVITIZATIONS. HELP. And you compare it with Greece tax evasion and corruption, the mortal sin and NEVER receiving HELP. Bailouts are not HELP. Inviting the sharks of Brussels and Imf to your country and lending you with interest while pushing for more austerity, making the people suicide and giving refugees more money/month than a greek gets with minimum wage and etc etc THATS NOT HELP.

Not to mention that Germany destroyed 50% of Greece industry and infastructure in ww2. Economy destroyed, they even made us take loan to feed nazi army during occupation, they stole countries national gold and art and we still paid to help Germany rebuild, Germany did not send 1 mark our way. Thats the theatre of absurdity. Tragicomedy at its best.

And you are telling me how they will sell it to German people? The same cunts that work the less hours in Europe and get paid the most? The same Germans who promoted insane slandering and lies to steer public opinion against the Greeks, like that Greeks are lazy when Greeks work the most hours in Europe? The same Germany that has tailored European union policy to suit their needs and have 200b surplus while the rest of Europe suffer? The same Germany that feeds 10 million unemployed Turk immigrants while Greeks have to pay more and more debts and sell all national businesses? I dont see taxpayers crying for this. The same Germany that hand picks the refugees it will accept and letting Greece handle all the unwanted when it cant even support its own people. The same Germans that make a deal with a dictator and a rogue country, Turkey and pay them billions while at the same time they suck Greece dry and threaten us with Shengen exit if we stop accepting the hordes of illegals who are destroying our only source of income, tourism?

Also dont make heavy factual incorrect statements, because thats basicly lying. Greece has abided by every single demand by the lenders so far and they are still toying with us. We did everything they asked, to the letter, and get shit in return, no haircut, no space for growth, no nothing. Austerity never works, never, economists have been preaching this for years. Who listens? Who cares? Lets take care the refugees yes and oh lets not hurt the poor German tax payer.

Yeah. Right.

Wr1tt3n by learster, 23.02.2017 at 18:11

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 16:38

In one word USA.

In more words, currency reform, marshal plan, european economic aid to Germany.

Thats right, in return to Germanie's generosity destroying our economies, infrastructure and killing our youth, the whole of Europe gathered up to get money to help Germany. You can see how Germany repaid the favour by "helping" the Greeks now. (sarcasm)

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

The US had little to do with our recovery. Germany was already a developed market with a highly skilled workforce and a population thirsty to consume. That's all you need for economic recovery when the entire country is pretty much flattened and hence also favours enormous government spending. With or without the US it would have happened and the Marshall Plan is more of a meme/Cold War propaganda when you consider that at the same time Germany was paying the US more in occupation maintenance annually than it was loaned during the entire MP programme.
What European economic aid are you talking about though? The war debt cut? Yes, that was very solid help and it puts us to shame that our representatives are forgetting about it while ruling out a debt cut for Greece.

I realise though that you necessarily need to take away from Germany since you are salty over the current political situation. Just a hint: how strong of a grip Germany has over EU policy could be very well seen during the Refugee Crisis. Whatever proposal our government made to introduce quotas was quickly shut down by the other member states. Greece being left alone with it's problems is down to all of the EU member states, which might help you understand that it's not single nations that keep Greece down but financial interests that in our current economic climate count for more than millions of people's lives.
That said, how a people can take responsibility of their own circumstances and affect change can be seen in Portugal right now. They are repaying their loans ahead of time and are on a road to recovery. Feel free to educate me on why both countries handle their financial crisis so differently, as I'm currently not aware and genuinely interested.

"The US had little to do with our recovery." Thats just not true. Thats actually a lie. Not only it had a lot to do, but to phrase it correctly "it also allowed you". You realise you were on the loosing side right? Getting help instead of humiliating terms was a first.And it wasnt just the Marshal plan, Western powers became a surrogate government and provided Germans with money, food and motivation and organised and helped Germanie's recovery, who took off with the new currency.

Now i dont plan to continue this convo, i am not the same as i was last year. Now i am racist, i am a patriot and i am a bigot and at the same time i know very well what i am talking about. I hate Germans and i hate muslims and i dont give a fuck any more, my people come first. And they are the ones suffering, i just heard a German kid yesterday say that after his shift he is not allowed to work until 11 hours passed. Well fuck you, my people work 10-18 hours, get no benefits, pay half their money in taxes and get nothing in return, nothing works ever since the austerity measures, nothing. First time in history a nation (Germany) is happy to advocate for the same humiliation and destruction itself suffered in the past (weimar/ versaille treaty) to another country, forgets its history, accepts the benefits as leader of the EU and not the responsibilities. Greece whatever your irrelevant opinion is, has by definition accepted its responsibilities by agreeing to the austerity measures and the terms and so far it only has gotten deeper in shit. All this, is YOUR plan. Your plan is not working. Our finance minister, Varoufakis had other plans but you made him resign. Its obvious you are doing something wrong cause the whole of Europe is burning, time to accept your responsibilities. The arrogance and superiority complex is in your culture, so its reasonable to not expect anything else from you, but defending your own, no matter how openminded you are.I ve witnessed it first hand as not only i have been all around Europe (and outside) but i worked in tourism as well.

P.S. Did you get all the skilled refugee labor you needed for your new factories? Good, your economy will take off even higher now, doesnt matter that Greece is forced to keep all the unskilled, the rapists and the murderers. Its not like they destroyed us. They were just the nail in the coffin.

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 17:06

Side note: Russian revolution second favorite revolution (after French revolution)

February or October? There are two... Russia couldn't have one like other normal countries.

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 17:06

Main note:

First question is, was it worth it?

Of course not. But people hated the emperor and didn't look into the future, they just used any means possible to overthrow him, and when they did, they realized theres no plan what to do next, because they were are mob, protesters, like todays liberal protesters, their only goal is to protest but no plan what after that step.

Civil war started, communists won, country was destroyed by world war and civil war and USSR was created.

USSR was indeed futuristic, modern and developed, but system was so different than what people used to that it was not read to accept. All humans need this system we have now, not communist, because for communist system we need automation and computerization. Computers to plan our economy, and automation to produce for economy(people). It didn't work to plan with pen and piece of paper and produce with human workers, that's reserved for capitalism and its self-employed system.

Russia had to retain monarchy and become like UK (constitutional monarchy), or if people really hated the emperor or if emperor really didn't want to give power(absolutism) than republic would be fine, like the one created in the February Revolution: parliamentarism, partyism, let people vote and winner will decide policies for the next 4 years.

Communism is for year 2500 or beyond, as you need ant mentality for that (collective mind), doesn't work with humans and their individualism (communism promote collectivism)

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 17:06

You mention Russia being a superpower, and certainly during the Cold War it was, but currently Russia is more of a regional power. Personally, it appears to be more of a dying empire.

Economy is not doing well, population is declining, and there appears to be little accountability of Putin. While I would say the United States has the strongest military in the world (and while I concede an invasion of Russia would not end well, nor vice versa), I'm not sure if investing in the military at the expense of the economy and living standards is good in the long term.

For instance, nordic countries have strong economies but weak militaries (ie. they dot invest much in it much to the dismay of Trump and his cabinet).

Some argue that superpower status is long gone, and now we have hyperpowers, like America; that mean they are able to influence other countries not only through military or economy but via media and culture as well. And i think that theory is correct. So, Russia is not a hyperpower yet, but superpower - it doesn't have strong economy, but definitely strong military, politics and media to influence events around the world.

I don't think US weaponry is bad, but i think Russian weaponry is better, so Russian military is strong than the American, but little weaker political power, but stronger media and American economy is way stronger than Russian.

Russian economy grew 8% before 2008 world crisis and 3% before 2014 sanctions, that's indication that without outside events Russian economy is pretty fast growing and developing rapidly, but those outside influences like crisis and sanctions hamper growth and development. That's why Putin is turning Russia towards China and India, for market and partners, to keep the economy growing and not let it suffer from Western trade wars and social crisis(migrants)

Living standard in Russia is far better than 20 years ago, but way worse than in the West, it's in between, average middle. It is not the best, but far from situation to cry upon. But now its up to people, not politics anymore, communism was meant to create economy for people, now when it is capitalism, its up to people to work, create jobs or seek job, government can only provide you market(by signing economic treaties with other states) and nothing more.So if economy is going to grow or shrink its up to peoples' motivation, mood, discipline, mentality, health, skill and education. 8% growth can tell us that people organized pretty good, so i think if we let them alone, they can build up pretty decent economy.

Problem is corporations, Russia does not have them (like the West), China have advantage here because they reformed to capitalist economy 10 years before Russia and they have Japanese mentality and work habits so they grow pretty fast and create corporations. Russians are not workaholics in nature and then communism made it worse even more by telling how paradise is on earth so no need to work because goal was accomplished(revolution). You can't force Russians to work even if you pay them western wages. Many seek jobs through party, by joining some, voting for it and if party win and get some ministry or local administration, it give state job to party members, so you can't motivate Russians to work in industry, production, agriculture or some real job like that, they all aim for office jobs in some administration, bank, government provided by the party. That's why Putin and Medvedev created state-owned corporations to kick-start large business and innovation; like Rusnano, Rosatom, Skolkovo, United Aircraft Corporation, United Shipbuilding Corporation, Rostec, Gazprom, Rosneft. That's 19th century policy from Europe, for example German Empire also created state-owned companies to speed up industrialization, and 100 years later most of German corporations are private or public(shares, actions and dividends), so Putin thinks the same, state create corporations now, and then make them public later.

Russia is not spending alot on military, 80 billion dollars out of 500 billion dollars government budget, and 40 billion out of 200 billion dollars budget after sanctions. I think spending reached $100 billion year before sanctions, because that year Russian Army purchased alot of new weapons (i think modernization is complete, all soviet weapons are replaced with russian one). Don't forget that Russia now have 'mercenary' army (professional), so most of military budget goes on soldier's salaries, not on weapons. So don't think Russia will spend to create again an army like USSR, its going to have small robotized army, even now numbers are closer to South Korea than America or China (800,000), goal is to have 500,000 personnel with robotized infantry and drone aircrafts.

Putin himself said he aim to create nordic model in Russia, welfare state, because Russia is similar to Scandinavia, people are more oriented towars welfare system than militarization or liberal capitalism. And i believe it will succed, that system, north countries are boring, where life is slow and people are mind their own business, same story as in Scandinavia (minus migrants). The only difference there will be gambling, i think Russians gamble more than scandi, but that might end when nordic education and system is established.

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 17:06

Germany has strong economy and strong military (I would reckon they could hold their own against Russia in a war).

Actually, Germany have pretty weak army, but very very strong economy. I've read some articles that says only 1/3 of German air force is capable of flying, that their ground forces lack munition etc. But no european army is ready for war, Netherland doesn't provide ammo to troops so they yell 'bam bam' during practice, Czech republic doesn't have planes but pay Sweden to guard its airspace, UK have only 4 subs and fails to launch a trident missile.

That's because Europe didn't maintain ww2 readyness after ww2. Everyone knew there will be no more wars, so they cut training and supplying, of course not instantly but day after day, month after month, it took decades and today we see the result. And geopolitically looking, there is indeed no threat to Europe so they logically will not maintain warlike readyness or train troops more than bootcamp requires.

What i can't prove, but i am 90% sure i am right, is that no European country can build an army to fight serious war, to really mobilize and fight like their grandparents in WW2 - except Germany. I think only Germany is able to rebuild its military(in EU) and start training seriously to become strong like 70 years ago. But something have to trigger that, something big, and we know that won't happen.

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 17:06

but it's economy and living standards are lagging (as noted in first post).

Don't forget that prices in Russia are not the same like the ones in the West. In Russia goods are cheaper so people can still afford it just like Westerner can afford prices with his wage. But that's changing as economy is globalizing and prices are going up (ironically since with hyperproduction costs go down). 2 years ago i bought a computer mouse for 2.5 dollars, a month ago i got new for $5, same one, same store. This can create crisis so either wages have to go up or prices need to stop growing. I dont know how that can be solved, economy is not a science and there is no formula, its like a gambling and we can just watch what will happen.(capitalist economy is not planned like communist one, and that's the beauty of it and curse in the same time)

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 17:06

So going back to my original question, is it worth having a strong military and flexing ones muscle at the expense of your country? With shrinking economy, standards of living deteriorate/ lag behind others. It is hardly a beacon for large quantities of people to make a life in Russia or open new businesses, etc. It appears to me modern Russia is experiencing similarities with the former Soviet Union, ie. little transparency so corruption seems to be endemic, little oversight of government meaning they can mess up (specifically Putin) and there does't seem to be accountability. And without that, I don't see how there can be a respected rule of law, an effective opposition, or new ways to innovate to increase Russias standard of living

Russia copied Western style politics, so it have transparency and accountability. It is hard to pull off an electoral fraud with all these cameras and foreign monitors in place. People decide the leader, and he have 6 years to lead and create policies, if he was bad during his term, people simply won't vote for him next time, they will choose some other politician. It happens that Putin is good and people voted for him 3 times, just like Americans voted 4 times for Roosevelt.

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 19:00

i am not the same as i was last year. Now i am racist, i am a patriot and i am a bigot and at the same time i know very well what i am talking about. I hate Germans and i hate muslims and i dont give a fuck any more, my people come first. And they are the ones suffering

Alright that's it (bang fist on table), i switch side as well then, joining the Dark Side. This is symbolic day of the Russian Revolution, and so i change my views thereon.

Fuck tatars and ukrainians, they are lower race, Russians are master race, blonde, and invented nuke and space program. We need lebensraum to settle our white people with blonde hair and blue eyes, from Moscow to Paris.

Fuck the fact my father is brown and greek, he shall be purged, for the sake of the White Russian Race.

Wr1tt3n by Skanderbeg, 23.02.2017 at 16:49

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 23.02.2017 at 14:51

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

There are 3 options here: to ignore you, to answer you using few bad words and to answer you normally. I usually use either normal replies or simply ignore on provocative and stupid questions, and never use bad words, but i will reply, politely since you said 'please'.

Your question is 'Why Germany have higher life standard than Russia'
My answer: read first post

the answer is oligarchy and corruption, just like india, india is very rich country but their people barely get their everyday needs.
yes marshal plan helped germany but so what ? marshal plan was done by usa, and russia's resources are as high as usa's.

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 19:00

P.S. Did you get all the skilled refugee labor you needed for your new factories? Good, your economy will take off even higher now, doesnt matter that Greece is forced to keep all the unskilled, the rapists and the murderers. Its not like they destroyed us. They were just the nail in the coffin.

It does'nt seem likely, did they really get to choose which ones they want to take? and then sent to others to the rest of Europe? or they just took masses knowing some of them are skilled? Where can i read more about it?

Wr1tt3n by Rock Lee, 24.02.2017 at 03:42

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 19:00

P.S. Did you get all the skilled refugee labor you needed for your new factories? Good, your economy will take off even higher now, doesnt matter that Greece is forced to keep all the unskilled, the rapists and the murderers. Its not like they destroyed us. They were just the nail in the coffin.

It does'nt seem likely, did they really get to choose which ones they want to take? and then sent to others to the rest of Europe? or they just took masses knowing some of them are skilled? Where can i read more about it?

It doesnt seem likely become you dont have the slightest idea of how refugee asylum system works in Europe, so thats natural.

The process is simple, refugees and immigrants flood Greece and Italy because geographically they are the borders that seperate Europe with Africa and East. Half of those illegals are without papers or throw them away when they get there. The beaches of greek islands are filled with teared passports, do you ever see this on the news? No, they just saw an image of the same little syrian kid for the last years over and over.

Anyway, most of these people apply for asylum to central, north and western european countries. Germany and other countries then, choose who to take, based on education and skills. If someone comes there illegal, they have every right to throw him back in Greece and Italy, which are the first countries the refugees entered. Thats how it works.

Most balkan states closed borders and countries far away from the source choose who to give asylum to. The weight is on Greece and Italy and offcource they are not allowed to close borders. Not only that but they get so scrutinized by the media, that they get judged even for the slightest "missconduct". That means police hands are tied and refugees/immigrants can do whatever the hell they want, while enjoying better lives for doing nothing than the 30% unemployed Greek European citizens. The double standards are atrocious.

And dont be fooled, as Learster said all the member states have some responsibility BUT not of the same degree. Germany called for them, Germany invited them, Germany pushed this agenda and the people are behind Merkel every step of the way. Germany has a dying population, they need skilled workers to keep the machine going, only the rest of us DONT.

Whats more interesting and hypocritical is that Germany that took part in Nato's actions in the Middle East is so refugee friendly and advocate for the acceptance of immigrants while countries that didnt took part in Nato's offensives are the ones who get wrecked by the hordes of refugees.




Its clear the peaceful countries that take most of the burden, Italy and Greece, while in heavy economic crisis themselves, do not want and cannot handle the refugees. Germany invited them, Germany wants them, 88% of Germans actively help aliens, no political party of any significance has any anti-immigration policies, its taboo in Germany to critisize anything regarding refugee/immigration policy.

# GERMANY SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR 2017 YEAH YEAH. WELL THATS GREAT TAKE THEM ALL THEN GERMANY. WHY DO ALL THE REST HAVE TO SUFFER BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DESTROY M.E. COUNTRIES WITH NATO AND THEN TAKE SKILLED LABOUR FOR LOW WAGE.

And then you have German media and the biggest newspapers like BILD, trashing a fellow European nation for years, spreading slander, propaganda and lies while at the same time praising multiculturalism, pro-immigration policies and censoring free speech.

The lies and the fake news are ABSURD. They claim positives for immigration while hiding the statistics, like how crime rises, how most of the refugees/immigrants stay unemployed and how the wellfare costs skyrocket and burden the taxpayer

AND

at the same time trashing Greece at every opportunity making it the scapegoat and try to paint it as the bad sheep that is destroying Europe and not doing anything for its recovery, when in reality what Greece has done in the last years in terms of austerity and reforms is ABSURD.



Greece has done MORE than any other country, in terms of cutting spending. The figures reveal tightening of a whopping 17.2% of underlying GDP between 2009 and 2015 for Greece. DO YOU KNOW WHAT 17% MEANS? If you take into account that what they are asking Greece to do completely destroyed the economy with no chance for growth or recovery you get what i said in my earlier post, about the theatre of absurdity.

In simple terms goes like this.


EU/ IMF/Germany : HEY GREECE YOU NEED TO CUT SPENDING AND WE WILL HELP YOU RECOVER OK?

Greece : OK


AFTER 7 YEARS

GREECE : HEY I DID EVERYTHING YOU ASKED. I STOPPED GIVING PENSIONS, I TAXED OXYGEN AND WALKING IN THE STREETS, I CLOSED ALL BUSINESSES, I LOWERED EXPORTS, I DESTROYED MY TOURISM INDUSTRY, I TOOK ALL THE REFUGEES YOU ASKED. I ABIDED BY ALL YOUR DEMANDS AND DIRECTIONS, NOW WHAT?

EU/IMF/GERMANY : GREECE CORRUPT, LAZY, STUPID, DESTROYING EUROPE, ITS YOUR FAULT, YOU DID NOTHING, YOU ARE INCOMPETENT, PAY DEBTS, DIE GREECE, DIE


Meanwhile in Turkey..

If 2000+ airspace yearly violations from Turkey werent enough, now Erdogan chooses to escalate. Its an everyday occurence now, that turkish military ships enter Greece territory and harass, they even fired shots the other day, INSIDE Greek territorial waters. At the same time turkish government led newspapers and media, use fake videos and news to mislead and create an episode.

Turkey is a rogue state and it tries hard to create a heated episode with Greece. At a time when our economy is in shambles, we are drowned in refugees and immigrants, Turkey's aggression is escalating to a point where war is actually close. War is on our doorstep.

And then you have the German coming here, asking me to educate him why Portugal is in better shape than Greece and preaching about responsibility. Fuck off.

I would like to hear more opinion about the subject

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 24.02.2017 at 07:28

Thank you.

as for Erdoan, he does that with all his neighbors, in my opinion he does'nt seek war just attention and scandals.

Also, even if you are right and he ai'nt fair, learster is a good guy and patient to everyone, he does'nt desrerve that attitutde.

Wr1tt3n by Rock Lee, 24.02.2017 at 07:54

Also, even if you are right and he ai'nt fair, learster is a good guy and patient to everyone, he does'nt desrerve that attitutde.

I actually agree with this. I am the bad guy here and strangely i accept that.

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 24.02.2017 at 10:51

I actually agree with this. I am the bad guy here and strangely i accept that.

if it seemed like i'm judging you or something then i'm sorry, these things happen to everyone and do not deside whether someone is bad guy or not, and for sure if they are rare, i just like to be cautious because these small aggressions eventually rather matter.

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 24.02.2017 at 07:28

calm your tits, its just that the portuguese must have worked harder, you lazy greek.

on a more serious note, i think we should put a reverse toll on products from parts of yurop that have a dangerous trade deficit.
Also, the Bild is the german Fox news, like...seriously...nobody who passed elementary school buys those.
regarding immigrants...dont talk about that...just...dont...please...i dont know why, but some people really seem to think it was a sound policy to start a new migration period

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 24.02.2017 at 03:14

Wr1tt3n by Skanderbeg, 23.02.2017 at 16:49

Wr1tt3n by DZuur01, 23.02.2017 at 14:51

germany literally has no natural resources (not after giving rich territories after ww2) while russia has lots, but still german quality of life is much higher, explain this tito please.

There are 3 options here: to ignore you, to answer you using few bad words and to answer you normally. I usually use either normal replies or simply ignore on provocative and stupid questions, and never use bad words, but i will reply, politely since you said 'please'.

Your question is 'Why Germany have higher life standard than Russia'
My answer: read first post

the answer is oligarchy and corruption, just like india, india is very rich country but their people barely get their everyday needs.
yes marshal plan helped germany but so what ? marshal plan was done by usa, and russia's resources are as high as usa's.

1. That is not my answer, you asked me and i gave it, idk what else you wish.

2. Destroyed system is result of low living standards in Russia, not oligarchs. Oligarchs are result of destroyed system, not its cause, as they were born in the aftermath, not before.

3. Corruption exist in all contries, not most, but all. It is wrong and bad, but not life threatening, somewhere it rules in low levels, somewhere in high levels and somewhere rule in all levels in society. Corruption is low in Russia because its ruling hospitals and local administration, who's gonna enter doctors' office first, who's gonna get papers done faster in local administration and those sort of things.

4. I didn't mention Marshal Plan, i don't know why you bring it up.

5. Russian resources are not 'as high as US', but way larger in quanitity beyond imagination. Even if you said 'US resources are as high as Russian' would be incorrect sentence. Russian resource worth stand at $75 trillion

6. Quantity and value of resources doesn't guarantee high living standard, as Japan have none and still have high living standard. Living standard is measured by other things. The only real worth resources are human, domestic animal, and fertile land, everything else is addition/luxury human societies voted to be valuable, that value is in human head, it is not real value.

Wr1tt3n by Skanderbeg, 24.02.2017 at 12:13

The only real worth resources are human, domestic animal, and fertile land, everything else is addition/luxury human societies voted to be valuable, that value is in human head, it is not real value.

This is true...
Sometimes what is important is lost in all the 'arguing' , but this is what underlies all standard of living.
And of these, it's really the first one (as demonstrated by Japan supporting a large population, with a relatively small amount of fertile land, but having one of world's highest living) that has the most impact.

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 19:00

"The US had little to do with our recovery." Thats just not true. Thats actually a lie. Not only it had a lot to do, but to phrase it correctly "it also allowed you". You realise you were on the loosing side right? Getting help instead of humiliating terms was a first.And it wasnt just the Marshal plan, Western powers became a surrogate government and provided Germans with money, food and motivation and organised and helped Germanie's recovery, who took off with the new currency.

Quite alright that they allowed for Germanys recovery, but that's not 'making' the recovery. In fact during the entire length of the Marshall Plan programme Germanys heavy industries, that would later power the economic recovery, were still under severe post-war restrictions. Even so you can't throw money at a country and expect it to develope itself from nothing into something, as evident of all the developement aid that is sunk into Africa. Or as equally well demonstrated by Greece, which received an even larger amount per capita of economic aid by the US and got nowhere beyond becoming a tourist destination.

As for allowing recovery in the first place- it wasn't out of benelovence. It was part of a new geo-political reality that made it necessary for Germany to be the first line of defence against the Eastern Block. That's why Germany is being treated better even though we were the monsters during the war. The country is useful. Greece is not. It's a tourist destination, no more. So don't expect any handouts and now good luck with being a racist, patriot and a bigot.

Wr1tt3n by Pheonixking929, 23.02.2017 at 16:57

Wr1tt3n by Khal.eesi, 23.02.2017 at 16:38

Russia was blacklisted and left out, it was the cold war after all.

1. In regards to "blacklisting" Russia/Eastern Europe from Marshal Plan- if memory serves me correctly, this aid was offered to the Soviet Union as well as to other nations in the soviet sphere of influence but was denied by Stalin and the Commies (would not serve ideology to accept capitalist money).

...however, the whole plan was manipulated to make the soviets regret it.

Qu0t3:

Marshall's speech had explicitly included an invitation to the Soviets, feeling that excluding them would have been a sign of distrust. State Department officials, however, knew that Stalin would almost certainly not participate, and that any plan that would send large amounts of aid to the Soviets was unlikely to be approved by Congress of the United States.

Stalin was interested at first in the offer [...] and sent his foreign minister, Viacheslav Mólotov, to Paris to talk to Bevin and Bidault. However the British and the French shared the same view as the US and presented to Mólotov a serie of conditions which they knew that the soviets would not accept. The most important of theses conditions were that any country which joins the plan would have to subject it's economical situation to foreign people or organisms, a control which the soviets would not agree. Bevin and Bidault also insisted that any type of help would'be accompanied by the creation of an unified European economy, which was entirely incompatible with the strict soviet economy plans. Mólotov then, declined the offer and abandoned Paris.